Or is that even possible?
Chobits Valley (my 2008NaNo) is set in the Chobits universe created by the manga goddesses over at at Clamp. However, my story will involve none of their charters, will utilize none of their settings, and will deal with an entirely different theme. Pretty much the only thing I'm taking form the manga/anime is the existence of and proliferation of persocoms, (androids used as a personal computers, for those of you who don't know). Technically, on paper, that still makes it fanfiction. But in practice? It feels like an original story. I mean, no one defines Wicked as a Wizard of Oz fanfic, now do they?
Thoughts?
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11,111 / 50,000
Oct 5, 2008 - 07 11
Is a tiger still a tiger if you paint it red?
The way I see it, a fanfic stops being a fanfic when you use nothing from the previously existing universe at all. Such as, if you didn't call your Persocoms Persocoms. If you want to get super technical, while no one -calls- it a Wizard of Oz fanfic, Wicked really is one. It uses characters from the original. It's just AU. People don't call it that because..
...
Well, honestly, I don't know. But it's technically what it is, since it's a different writer dabbling in the universe someone else created. One could in the same line of thinking say that every writer who's handled Batman since Bob Kane is a fanfiction writer, since they're taking an established character and molding him a little more each day. Of course, this is differentiated because they're paid to do it.
But in the same vein, don't let that make you feel any less validated about your work. Some very famous authors got their start in fanfiction. A friend of mine was kind enough to introduce me to an anthology of -fanwritten work- based in her universes published by Marion Zimmer Bradley, which featured writings by Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey, and Mercedes Lackey. *grin*
Hm.
Maybe the difference is whether or not you're being paid? XD
*/end thoughts of a fellow fanfiction NaNo-er this year*
----------Give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire, he'll be warm for a lifetime.
~~NaNoWriMo 2008~~
Batman Beyond - Paradigm Ethic: Root of All Evil
6,679 / 50,000
Oct 5, 2008 - 08 46
First of all, yes, I would define Wicked as Wizard of Oz fanfic. It IS a derivative work, and one would hope written by a fan. The only thing that makes it publishable is that the copyright has expired. There are a number of books like this, that pick up other people's characters. Sherlock Holmes and the Cthulu mythos seem to pop to mind. Rest assured that if you made that much money off a living, copyrighted author, he would sue your ass into the ground and be applauded for doing so. In a practical sense, it never quits being "fanfic" because it will always be Fiction written by Fans, BUT it becomes publishable when the copyright on the original work expires. (Which doesn't apply to you, because you'll be just as dead as the original author by then.)
Personally, I think it would be incredible, if an author could extend his copyright indefinitely by leaving it to charity, and it would do a lot of good in this world. I'd be thrilled to leave my copyrights to the Shrine Hospitals, which treat burned and crippled children for free, and then people could get permission (in exchange for a percentage of the proceeds) to publish using my characters, and the kiddos get taken care of.
However, it sounds to me like you are doing something a little bit different, and here's how.
1. Androids as personal computers and companions are a staple of science fiction. The people who wrote your mangas don't have a copyright on them, anymore than you do. That's a little bit more like being worried about the Wizard of Oz because you put a hot-air balloon in your book. At most, I might change the name; the concept is without a doubt public domain. (same thing with ansibles, time machines, and space warps)
2. Chobits Valley? WTF? If you use completely different settings, characters, and themes, how exactly is this "in the Chobits universe?" It seems like you're using this almost exclusively as a title, and maybe a little as a crutch. I know Manga readers tend to be incredibly visual thinkers, but nobody's going to look at your novel and see the pictures, or the style in the Manga. They'll see what you tell them to see. YOU have chosen a name that links the two. Don't cripple yourself like that. Especially if you're going to all the work of coming up with your own characters, settings, and themes.
31,034 / 50,000
Oct 5, 2008 - 10 52
*raises hand* I define Wicked as Wizard of Oz fanfiction, as many of my friends know. XD
I’m doing a similar thing. My novel’s set in the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender, but since it’s set several centuries in the past, with a different Avatar, none of the canon characters appear (well, no human characters, some of the spirits pop up every now and again.) But the entire story is inspired and built upon the structure of that world, from spiritualism, to martial arts, to politics, to culture, to geography. Truthfully, with a bit of effort, I could change a few details and make it completely original, but then, can’t you do that with most fanfiction anyway? (Think about it…)
My idea notebook currently holds a story heavily influenced by Star Trek (Voyager to be precise.) It involves a misanthropic holonovelist who creates a holographic personal assistant because they can’t deal with people, and the story follows the “evolution” of the hologram as programming becomes more advanced and it becomes more “human”. Since holograms and artificial intelligence are common in Sci-fi, the only thing holding it to Star Trek canon are a few cameos from characters and mentions of canon events, both of which can be removed without changing the story.
To me, fanfiction stops being fanfiction when there are no unique elements that concretely tie it to the canon in question. It could be something specific, such as the term Persocom, or more general, such as a unique system of spiritualism/martial arts like Bending. On the other hand, just the existence of holograms does not Star Trek fanfiction make.
In short, fanfiction has many different levels, and if you consider it fanfiction, it is. Someone else might not.
34,808 / 50,000
Oct 7, 2008 - 18 54
2. Chobits Valley? WTF? If you use completely different settings, characters, and themes, how exactly is this "in the Chobits universe?" It seems like you're using this almost exclusively as a title, and maybe a little as a crutch. I know Manga readers tend to be incredibly visual thinkers, but nobody's going to look at your novel and see the pictures, or the style in the Manga. They'll see what you tell them to see. YOU have chosen a name that links the two. Don't cripple yourself like that. Especially if you're going to all the work of coming up with your own characters, settings, and themes.
Actually, Chobits Valley started as a forum RPG that my wife and I started almost four years ago, shortly after watching the Chobits anime in its entirety. We set up the town, created a small stable of NPC's and was just about to open up to the public (or at least Yahoo Groups) when we found out we were going to be parents. Understandably, the game soon plummeted down our list of priorities.
Being something of a digital pack rat, I kept all of our notes on the game. I came across them as I plundered my 'story ideas' folder, looking for something for this year's NaNo... and here I am. Upon closer review, I suppose that the androids don't need to be persocoms per se. Truth be told, I'm still on the fence about that, and I have time. My question was mostly an academic one for my own edification, as well as attempt to get other people's point of view on the topic.
----------0 / 50,000
Oct 7, 2008 - 19 42
do you have to use the actual names? If you use your own names for pretty much the same thing...
and example?
tissue and Kleenex
coca cola and soft drink
you might as well call all sci-fi fan fic because it uses outer space and someone used it first, or all novels set in the middle of the earth ERB fan fic.
It's not fanfic if you don't use someone else's names or plots. :)
----------everyone has a choice...
17,630 / 50,000
Oct 8, 2008 - 00 39
I'd say the difference between fanfic and media tie-in is whether you get paid.
----------This is the one. Doctor Horrible. Awesome Musical. Tell your friends.
64,663 / 50,000
Oct 8, 2008 - 02 00
I say it still makes it fanfiction if it's set in that universe really. The persocoms are the element that makes that universe uniquely Chobits, so you can't get away from that, even if that's only the background. I've got a bunny for a story set in the Star Trek universe, that wouldn't use any of the characters from any of the series, but uses the various alien races and the Federation and stuff. Those are the things that make it Trek, even if Captain Kirk is nowhere in sight. Harry Potter universe is a another one that people can use as background, but again, it doesn't need any canons or to be set at Hogwarts to still be fanfic.
You could of course try chaging those persocoms enough to make them into something distinct enough from the ones of the Chobits universe to make your story original. In the past "fanfic with the serial numbers filed off" - that is names and significant details changed - has been published successfully as original fic, but fans at least are likely to still spot the origin.
2,276 / 50,000
Oct 8, 2008 - 11 42
A good example of when fanfiction stops being fanfiction is Cassandra Clare's novel City of Bones, which is an original novel that anyone who read her fanfiction story Draco Dormiens can see came straight from that idea. She made the characters more individualized, and made sure that she wasn't stealing plot points from the original story, but still made the original plot of her fanfic a true fiction story. It can be done :)
23,618 / 50,000
Oct 18, 2008 - 14 09
I'm fairly sure J. M. Barrie left the rights to "Peter Pan" to Great Ormond Street Hospital, in London. They owned the copyright when they commissioned an author to write a new book in the "Peter Pan" story.
----------BFS goals - http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node/1075131
33,271 / 50,000
Oct 19, 2008 - 02 37
My novel is technically fanfiction, and I'm well aware of it. I'm writing Pride and Prejudice from Darcy's perspective. As has been pointed out however, the copyright has long since expired, so assuming I could find a publisher who would be willing to publish yet another novel in a possibly glutted market (oh please yes!), I'll be able to publish it.
As for the true point of the original question, I think many in here have answer it well. A story is fanfiction as long as it retains any element unique to that fandom--characters, locations, words. The only exception to that is if your characters *refer* to something unique to the fandom. Having your character say something is like a T.A.R.D.I.S. does not automatically make it Doctor Who fanfic.
----------25,229 / 50,000
Oct 19, 2008 - 10 54
To be completely accurate, The Cthulu Mythos was never Copytight to Lovecraft, he purposely opened it up and invited other authors to participate, while he was still alive. A number of Mythos creatures aren't his creation (The Hounds Of Tindalos being one of the most notable). So that's a really really bad example as nothing in the Mythos is FanFic so much as Open Source Fic.
(In fact Lovecraft took from a number of writers, Hastur and The King In Yellow are Ambrose Bierce's)
If you renamed the People-computers, and reimaged them slightly differently and if you're using nothing at all from the Chobits universe you've probably left the realm of Derivative Work and entered the realm of Inspired Work - but if you make that too close to the mark you might get into a bind then too. Technically if you use even one bit of someone else's IP it's a derivative work; especially if they own that IP instead of doing something like what Lovecraft did and opened it completely.
As has been pointed out though "Personal Computer People/Android/Robot" is a pretty common SF staple, in this case just changing the terminology probably is enough.
--
----------Your Name In Blood - Have No Fear
Your Name In Blood - Have No Fear
47,712 / 50,000
Oct 19, 2008 - 12 46
Wicked is a parallel novel. It takes the framework and events from the original Wizard of Oz books and looks at them from a different perspective; so do the following books in that series. It's not supposed to be original, it's supposed to be a parallel novel. Fanfiction, I think, generally tries to keep canon with the original work whereas parallel works are more AU-focused. Atwood did one with the Penelopiad which parallels the Odyessy, and I'm fairly certain there's a Gone with the Wind parallel too. And then there's revisionist, like when people make modern adaptations of fairy tales or rewrite fairy tales, like Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister by Maguire (the Wicked guy).
I think it stops being fanfiction when you can't be sued for it. You can't use identical characters, settings, robot designs, or words that the original author created -- like Persocom. Androids are a common thing so if you changed it up enough to just have a universe with androids as personal servants, produced by private companies, it could be considered original. It sounds like you just borrowed the personal-robot concept and aren't taking much else from CLAMP's work. If you're determined to not make it fanfiction I would recommend changing the robot design, though, because those ears were pretty distinctive.
----------NaNoWriMo is the Saturnalia of the writing world.
57,972 / 50,000
Oct 19, 2008 - 22 49
I feel like "Fanfiction" has acquired the stigma that "scifi" has had to deal with for so long. Books like Wicked would surely prefer not to be lumped in with fanfiction just as, say, Michael Crichton's books are not considered scifi, when so clearly they are! From that perspective it seems publishers might decide that fanfiction is no longer fanfiction when it is well-written enough to get published and stand on a shelf next to Timeline and Jurassic Park.
Fanfiction based on Pride and Prejudice is by far my favorite (yea ChocolateQueen!) and that, of course has an easier time getting published because the original is in the public domain, but there are also SO MANY fanfiction novels out there that are based on materials for which the copywrite still exists (StarWars novels, anyone?)
I guess my opinion is that Wicked is fanfiction just as Timeline is scifi, regardless of where the bookstores shelve it.
86,300 / 50,000
Oct 19, 2008 - 23 19
Fanfiction based on Pride and Prejudice is by far my favorite (yea ChocolateQueen!) and that, of course has an easier time getting published because the original is in the public domain, but there are also SO MANY fanfiction novels out there that are based on materials for which the copywrite still exists (StarWars novels, anyone?)
I guess my opinion is that Wicked is fanfiction just as Timeline is scifi, regardless of where the bookstores shelve it.
The Star Wars novels are hired work licensed by those who own the copyright to the Star Wars franchise. Likewise with the Star Trek novels, Dungeons & Dragons, etc. Don't think that just being "good enough" is enough to allow something to get published -- I really doubt J.K. Rowling, as encouraging as she is toward fanfic writers, would allow Harry Potter tie-in novels to get published. The most likely "fanfic" you are to actually getting published is "fanfic" to intellectual property whose copyright has already expired, for instance, Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes, etc. If it's over 100 years old, chances are it's no longer under copyright. Otherwise, don't even think you might get it published, no matter how good it is.
In the case of the original post, however, as it sounds like the only common element is the name, as others have said, just changing the name is sufficient. And sometimes something can be very derivative without technically falling under the rules of "fanfic" or "plagiarism" (the latter of which rarely applies since it only covers copying another's _words_ verbatim). Take, for instance, Eragon. Some have said that it's basically the plot of Star Wars, set in Middle-Earth with the Dragonriders of Pern, or the like. But none of them are likely to sue Paolini about it, as you can't copyright a plot or concept, all you need to do is change the names and details, and you have one very unoriginal, but legal, story.
--
Title: Breaking Light
----------Goal: 250,000 or bust
Sanity level: Do you even need to ask?
Title: Breaking Light
Goal: Finishing this novel. (Probably be 100k-120k at this rate.)
Sanity level: Do you even need to ask?
57,972 / 50,000
Oct 20, 2008 - 11 07
Obviously the Star Wars novels are licensed by the copyright owners, I did not mean to imply otherwise. I was just pointing out that there is fanfiction out there that is derived from stories for which a copyright still exists. How it got published is quite another issue. Although, this brings up an interesting point. Would you consider the Star Wars books to be something other than fanfiction simply because they are licensed? If so, then the definition of fanfiction might be something like:
an unlicensed story that uses characters or worlds from other copyrighted material
what do you think?
Good example!
31,173 / 50,000
Oct 22, 2008 - 07 30
So if I have a story where I mix Redwall and Science Fiction, but change all the names and don't copy the plot at all is it fanfiction? That is if I take talking animals, that are somewhat based on Redwall, and loosely base some locations on Redwallian descriptions (like Redwall Abbey). Is it really fanfiction.
I'm going to say not, the only thing I'm really borrowing is say talking mice with swords, and maybe maybe a sandstone abbey. Originally I thought it would be cool to set Redwall Abbey in Great Britain in 2500 AD. Brought back through a combination of technology and mystical forces. Then I was going to put Brian Jacques in the story, but that was when I was still writing fanfic. As I'm moving past that now, I think the only recognizable features are talking animals and red walls.
Considering that my plot resembles Redwall in no way, shape, or form I don't think that's fanfic.
(and yes the plot sounds really weird , I know. :P )
86,300 / 50,000
Oct 22, 2008 - 10 27
I'm going to say not, the only thing I'm really borrowing is say talking mice with swords, and maybe maybe a sandstone abbey. Originally I thought it would be cool to set Redwall Abbey in Great Britain in 2500 AD. Brought back through a combination of technology and mystical forces. Then I was going to put Brian Jacques in the story, but that was when I was still writing fanfic. As I'm moving past that now, I think the only recognizable features are talking animals and red walls.
Considering that my plot resembles Redwall in no way, shape, or form I don't think that's fanfic.
(and yes the plot sounds really weird , I know. :P )
I wouldn't call that fanfic. I'd just call it Talking Animals IN SPAAAACE! Ahem. Anyway. Yes, generally, if all you're taking is a general concept and giving it a new lick of paint, that's not fanfic.
----------Title: Breaking Light
Goal: Finishing this novel. (Probably be 100k-120k at this rate.)
Sanity level: Do you even need to ask?
2,052 / 50,000
Oct 23, 2008 - 09 20
I think it's worth noting in this case that "persocom" is just the Japanese abbreviation of "personal computer". It's not specific to Chobits at all. If you just Anglicized that and called the androids "computers" or "PCs", and maybe modified some of the defining characteristics (like the distinctive ears) then that would take care of the fanfiction issue and you'd be free to tout the story as your original creation. Like some other posters said, androids are a sci-fi staple. Your Chobits connections seem like pretty minor aspects of the overall story, so if the fanfiction thing is bothering you I'd say just toss 'em.